The Online Photographer

Check out our new site at www.theonlinephotographer.com!

Saturday, May 19, 2007

Rate Your P/S!

Yashica T4 Zoom, a long-gone film point-and-shoot
that many photographers found useful

Got 20 minutes to squander for zero real reason? Rate your point-and-shoot! Use the rating system in the "Building the Perfect Point-and-Shoot" post below and tell us how your p/s does.

For Feature #4, award 3 points for each property. For Feature #5, a prime lens deserves a full 10 points if you ask me.

How's yours do? Tell us.

Posted by: MIKE JOHNSTON, with thanks to Peter

READER RATINGS
(with the "handle" of the reader in brackets):

• Canon G3: 66 [Ernest Thiesen]
• Canon G7: 51 [amin]
• Canon S2 IS: 36 [Tommy]
• Canon A80: 40 [Alex]
• Canon A610: 45 [ctyankee]
• Canon A640: 60–70 [paul]
• Canon SD500: 52 [PleasureSean]
• Canon SD 700 IS / IXUS 800: 68 [mike]
-------------------------------------54 [Eddy]
• Canon SD 1000 / IXUS 70: 63 [david vatovec]
• Canon A710IS: 63 [Tim]
• Canon S70: 61 [Tim]
• Canon G5: 67 [Dan K.]
• Casio EX-Z850: 49 [bob, under protest]
• Fuji S5000: 36 [Albano Garcia]
• Fujifilm Finepix F30: 49 [erusan]
• Fuji Finepix E550: 64 [Robin P]
------------------------54 [Joshua]
• Minolta Dimage A1: 64 [Seungmin]
• Nikon CP8400: 65 [Dwig]
• Nikon P5000: 55 [Ming Thein]
• Nikon 35 Ti (film): 72 [Steve Thurow]
• Olympus c-5050: 78 [Dr Hiding Pup]
• Olympus 770SW: 47 [Matthew Robertson]
• Olympus 720SW: 62 [Brian Auer]
• Olympus c-5060: 47 [Rusty]
• Panasonic FX01: 48 [Bruce McL]
----------------------49 [Paul]
• Panasonic Lumix LX2 / Leica D-Lux 3: 48 [tom]
------------------------------------------------58 [Andrew Fildes]
• Panasonic TZ3: 67 [Ming Thein]
• Panasonic LC1 / Leica Digilux2: 51 [huzur & urmuz]
• Panasonic Lumix FX8: 66 [digiTED]
• Panasonic DMC-LX1: 65 [Yvonne]
----------------------------52 [ayh]
----------------------------48 [Dan]
• Pentax Optio S5i: 56 [John]
• Pentax 750z: 62 [kshapero]
• Pentax A10: 47 [Patrick Mallette]
• Pentax Optio 43WR: 45 [John Banister]
• Ricoh GX100: 54 ("Strictly graded") [jobo]
-------------------56 [Andrew Fildes]
• Ricoh GR-D: 61 [Ming Thein]
-----------------61 [Andrew Fildes]
• Sanyo W31SAII mobile phone with a 1.1 megapixel camera: 29 [JanneM]
• Sony DSC-W30: 53 [Seungmin]
• Sony DSC-P43: 44 [Dorin]
• Sony DSC-V1: 36 [cjobowlsby]
• Yashica T4 Super (film): 70 [Mark]

49 Comments:

Blogger paul said...

Canon A620 (discontinued; the direct successor is the A630): I score it at 60 points (70 if you use the freeware hack that allows for RAW capture).

I've also concluded that the A620 really isn't a P&S; it's more like a bridge camera than the vast majority of metallic rectangles out there. But it fits in a jacket pocket and is a shockingly effective photographic tool with qualities that are completely out of proportion to its cost.

I won't rest until everybody tries one!

3:31 PM  
Blogger Alex said...

I like this game, even if my household P/S does quite poorly... this is the Canon PowerShot A80.

1. Size: I'll give it a 5. It's a bit thick.
2. MegaPixels: 4 megapixels. It's dated technology. Still, I've printed 5x7 from it that look great. I'll give it a 5 for being insufficient by modern standards.
3. Raw Capability: No, 0 points.
4. Waterproof: pretty robust, but not especially any of those things. 4 points.
5. Zoom Range: Pretty good, 7 points.
6. Reasonably Noise Free at 400 ISO: Nope. Zero points.
7. Articulated LCD: bingo! 8 points cuz it's quite small.
8. Optical Viewfinder: Yes, although it has the same limitations that all of these have, 7 points.
9. AS/IS: Nope, 0 points.
10. Fast: Nope, 4 points because I've seen worse.

Total: 40 points.

3:32 PM  
Blogger amin said...

My P&S is a Canon G7. I know one could argue that it's not a P&S, but I use it that way.

Feature 1: True shirt-pocket size
No way. Small enough to bring just about anywhere though. Could be bigger. 3/10

Feature 2: No more than 8 megapixels—6 would be better
Canon packs in 10MP, but the sensor is a decent size (1/1.8") and it handles noise and DR okay. 6/10

Feature 3: RAW capability
0/10. No RAW is the main reason I keep looking at the alternatives.

Feature 4: Waterproof, shockproof, and freeze-proof
Solid build, but not waterproof. 6/10.

Feature 5: A zoom lens of no more than 3X, 28–85mm equivalent, ƒ/2.8 or faster on the short end.
6X zoom is high quality and fast in this case, so I'm giving it 8/10.

Feature 6: Reasonably noise-free to ISO 400.
G7 actually does pretty well at ISO 400. Not too far behind my Fuji F30, so I'll give it 7/10.

Feature 7: No articulated LCD, and I don't care. Still, 0/10

Feature 8: An optical viewfinder
Yes, but it is misaligned. 5/10

Feature 9: Anti-Shake/Image Stabilization
Yes, and it works well. 9/10

Feature 10: Must be fast, responsive, and very quiet, with excellent shutter lag and shutter release feel.
Pretty good - 7/10

I think this list should have included battery life, type of storage, image buffer, etc. Articulated LCD, number of megapixels, and fold zoom are not important IMO.

Still, based on the given scale, I give my G7 51 points out of 100.

4:19 PM  
Blogger cjbowlsby said...

So a total of 36

Sony DSC-V1

1. Size: 6
compact, but not really "pocketable"

2. Resolution: 8
5 megapixels is enough resolution for a fantastic 5x7 at ISO 100, and a decent 8x10.

3. Raw capability: 0

4. Resilience: 0
Built like a rock, but still not what you'd call weather-proof, shock proof, or freeze proof.

5. Zoom range: 7
I know it's a 4x (35-140) but the quality on the zeiss optics is REALLY strong. Just wish it was a bit wider.

6. ISO 400 cleanliness: ummm... 0

7. Articulated LCD: 0
small dark and unarticulated

8: optical viewfinder: 7
small, but fairly bright, with focus lock and flash verifaction.

9: AS/IS: 0

10: Fast: 8 Really very fast autofocus, and terific shutter response if you pre-focus.

4:20 PM  
Blogger Tommy said...

Canon S2 IS

1) Size: 3, not pocketable.
2) MP: 5 (5 mpix)
3) Raw: 0
4) Waterproof: 6 (worked fine in the snow in ~30 degrees F)
5) Zoom: 3 (megazoom, really slow)
6) ISO 400: 0
7) Articulated LCD: 8
8) Optical Viewfinder: 0 (no)
9) IS: 6 (probably only 1 stop of help)
10) Shutter: 5 (decent feel, good response but only pre-focused)

Total: 36

4:33 PM  
Blogger Piotr said...

Ricoh GR1

Great small body, great lens, aperture priority (on dial), +/- 2 EV correction (on dial), spot, snap mode, etc etc... Ricoh GR1 is all I need. Ever.

4:39 PM  
Blogger Albano Garcia said...

Ok, I'll jump with my Fuji S5000 (a bridge camera maybe, but the G3 isn't a p&s neither.

Feature #1: 3 points. It's not pocketable, but it fits in a very small bag.
Feature #2: 4 points. It's a 3 mp SuperCCD, interpolating to 6. I've printed up to 8x10 with great results and to 12x16 with acceptable results.
Feature #3: 10 points. Perfectly usable in RAW mode. Lightweight 4 mb dng files when converted.
Feature #4: 5 points. It has more than 2 years of non-babying use, and it's solid.
Feature #5: 10 points. Sorry, no prime-snobs here. A great, 2.8-3.2, 10x zoom, versatile.
Feature #6: 0 points. Noisy even at iso 200.
Feature #7: 0 points. Fixed one.
Feature #8: 1 point. It has an EVF in case you feel you're not serious if you use the LCD. I love to use the LCD, and I'm pretty serious, believe me.
Feature #9: 0 points. Would love to have it.
Feature #10: 3 points. It's ok if prefocused, otherwise, slow.

TOTAL SCORE: 36 points.
It seems this rating doesn't reflects my thinking, since I love the camera and I think it's a great photographing tool. A fun excercise nevertheless.

4:55 PM  
Blogger Bruce McL said...

Panasonic FX01 - 48 points

10 for shirt pocket size
10 for 6 megapixels
0 for RAW
0 for waterproof, etc.
8 for lens, 28-102, very sharp
4 for low noise at high ISO
0 for articulated LCD
0 for viewfinder
10 for OIS
6 for shutter lag and quiet

What I miss on this camera is RAW and low noise at high sensitivity. I don't miss waterproof, articulated LCD or viewfinder.

5:08 PM  
Blogger Brian Auer said...

Olympus 720SW

1. Size: 10 - It's pretty small, but not so small that you can't hold it.

2. MegaPixels: 9 - It has 7MP, but I'd almost be happier with 6MP to help reduce noise.

3. RAW: 0 - not capable of RAW.

4. Durability: 9 - The 770SW goes deeper underwater and it's freeze-proof (unlike the 720).

5. Lens: 8 - 3X optical at f/3.5. Could be a little faster.

6. Noise: 7 - It's kind of a noisy camera to begin with.

7. Articulated LCD: 2 - It's not articulated, but it's 2.5 inches and pretty bright.

8. Viewfinder: 0 - No room for one. The LCD almost takes up the entire back panel.

9. Anti-Shake: 9 - It does pretty good for a little camera.

10. The Feel: 8 - It's actually pretty fast. Not SLR fast, but better than a lot of other cameras I've used. It's a pretty quick focuser too, not a lot of searching.

TOTAL: 62 points.

6:54 PM  
Blogger Yvonne said...

PANASONIC DMC-LX1 (now superceded by DMC-LX2, which DPReview rated as no better because of noise, see below)

I give this one 65 points.

Here’s how it breaks down for me:

Feature 1: True shirt-pocket size (for me purse-size is the key): 8 points (lens sticks out)
Feature 2: No more than 8 megapixels: 10 points (has 8 but you can set it for 6 megapixels)
Feature 3: RAW capability: 10 points
Feature 4: Waterproof, shockproof, and freeze-proof: 5 points (appears pretty tough, but not waterproof, haven't been very rough on it, so giving benefit of the doubt here)
Feature 5: A zoom lens of no more than 3X, 28–85mm equivalent, ƒ/2.8 or faster on the short end: Has Leica 28 mm to 112 mm, f/2.8 at short end(35 mm equiv.): 7 points (hey, I feel generous)
Feature 6: Reasonably noise-free to ISO 400: Achilles heel of this camera is noise, noise, noise: 2 points (noise reduction software a given, but the effects can be cool sometimes)
Feature 7: An articulated LCD: nope
Feature 8: An optical viewfinder: nope
Feature 9: Anti-Shake/Image Stabilization: yes, 10 points, works well
Feature 10: Feature 10: Must be fast, responsive, and very quiet, with excellent shutter lag and shutter release feel: works well, quick and responsive for 9 points
Extra marks given for 16-9 aspect ratio: 4 points (again, perhaps generous, but this is a nice feature)

Total: 65 points

7:08 PM  
Blogger photo said...

Fujifilm Natura Black Limited F1.9
(Moonlight Camera)

Only one best Choice, 100%

http://fujifilm.jp/personal/filmcamera/35mm/naturas/feature.html

7:12 PM  
Blogger erusan said...

Fujifilm Finepix F30

1. Small but a little heavy (metal build), 8/10.
2. 6 MP, does that make 10/10?
3. RAW: haha. 0/10.
4. A little shockproof, didn't freeze it: 3/10.
5. 3x Zoom, a bit wider would be nice. 7/10.
6. The king/queen of ISO 400. 10/10.
7. Articulated LCD: nope. 0/10.
8. Optical VF: nope. 0/10.
9. No IS, VR etc. But it works well on ISO 800, so 3/10.
10. Responsive, AF is OK. 8/10.

That totals 49 points.

I, too, miss battery life in the scores. The F30 gets 10 points for that because it goes for weeks on one charge.
For optical VF yes/no, I would insert the word "usable" to earn points... compacts have had these peeping holes for some time now, do you consider them useful as opposed to LCDs?

8:20 PM  
Blogger JanneM said...

Sanyo W31SAII mobile phone with a 1.1 megapixel camera.

#1: 10. Since it's built in a device I'd carry anyway it really doesn't get smaller.

#2: 10. 1.1Mp is less then 8Mp. Way less. I should have bonus points for this.

#3: 0. RAW? You're kidding, right? It does heavily compressed Jpeg, just like our forefathers decreed.

#4: 6. I give 3 for shock proof (I've dropped the phone multiple times with no ill results). I award half points for the other two since it is fairly resilient and if it breaks I can go to the nearest AU store and pick up a new one for a symbolic sum.

#5: 3. It zooms. Slowly. As in, about five seconds from one end ot the other. On the positive side, the wide end is really wide, not this mediocre normal many cameras have.

#6: 0. ISO? To be sure, it does change sensitivity, and it it sort-of noise-free, but that is mostly an effect of heavily compressed Jpeg.

#7: 0. Nope.

#8: 0. Nope.

#9: 0. Not a chance.

#10: 0. I can have a quick cup of coffee while waiting for the shutter. Zooming, focus, screen update - you feel like you've entered Matrix 'Bullet time' as the functions all sloowly work to finish. Zoom takes five seconds, focus (which runs through the focus range, then decides where to go) takes about 3 seconds. The screen updates slowly enough I see "cascades" of motion running down the screen when I move the cam. And it's a phone, so it makes an unmutable little blingelingeling sound when you take the picture.

So, 29 points. To be fair, though, you can prefocus which makes things easier, and you can even, amazingly, set the white balance manually.

9:41 PM  
Blogger Ming Thein said...

Ricoh GR-D:
1. Size - 10
2. MP - 10
3. Raw - 5 (yes, but too slow to be useable)
4. Robustness - 7
5. Zoom range - 10 (28/2.4 prime, baby!)
6. Noise at 400 - 7 (yes sometimes, no other times)
7. Articulated LCD - 0
8. OVF - 7 (yes because the 28 brightline finder is awesome, deduct because it takes up the hotshoe)
9. Stabilizer - 0
10. Fast - 5 Lag is short, it has a hyperfocal mode, but shot to shot is slow.
Total: 61 points

Panasonic TZ3:
1. Size - 5 (bit too heavy for the shirt pocket)
2. MP - 10
3. Raw - 0
4. Robustness - 10
5. Zoom range - 10 (Contraversial, but it's 25-280 equivalent. HOWEVER, the lens quality is so damn good, I have to give it 10.)
6. Noise at 400 - 7 (yes sometimes, no other times)
7. Articulated LCD - 5 (nowhere else to put this - it has a gorgeous 3" LCD which is like composing on MF groundglass; visible in direct sun, too).
8. OVF - 0
9. Stabilizer - 10
10. Fast - 10 (blazingly so. I clock mine at 4.5fps, plus AF times are the fastest I've ever seen from a P&S)
Total: 67 points

Nikon P5000:
1. Size - 5 (ergonomically great, but the grip means it won't fit into a shirt pocket)
2. MP - 7
3. Raw - 0
4. Robustness - 10
5. Zoom range - 5 (35-120; neither long enough nor wide enough)
6. Noise at 400 - 10 (oddly very good despite a tiny 10MP sensor)
7. Articulated LCD - 0
8. OVF - 5 (it's small and tiny but at least it's there)
9. Stabilizer - 10
10. Fast - 3 One of the slowest cameras I've ever used. Makes up for it in image quality, though.
Total: 55 points

And now two for fun: a 2002 vintage Sony U20 (that tiny sushi-sized thing)
1. Size - 10 (this thing is smaller than the battery pack on my DSLR!)
2. MP - 5 (only 2.1 :P)
3. Raw - 0
4. Robustness - 10 (I've used it in a blizzard, fallen on it, etc. Still lives)
5. Zoom range - 10 (35/2.8 prime, baby!)
6. Noise at 400 - 0 (let's not go there)
7. Articulated LCD - 0
8. OVF - 0
9. Stabilizer - 0
10. Fast - 5
Total: 40 points

Just for fun, 2: Nikon D200 with a nice fast prime, say the Sigma 30/1.4:
1. Size - 0
2. MP - 10 (fine given the size of the sensor)
3. Raw - 10 (26 shot buffer with a fast card, yeeha!)
4. Robustness - 10
5. Zoom range - 10 (30/1.4 prime, baby!)
6. Noise at 400 - 10 (whaddya expect, it's a DSLR)
7. Articulated LCD - 0
8. OVF - 10
9. Stabilizer - 0
10. Fast - 10
Total: 70 points

Interesting. Even if we change lenses on the DSLR, we may gain stabilization etc - but we're still stuck at a max of 80 points. Ergo: there is no one perfect camera (though I'd say that new Canon 1DmkIII comes close at about 90 points, being let down by being the size of a small house).

Ming Thein
flickr.com/photos/mingthein

9:41 PM  
Blogger Ernest Theisen said...

Canon G3. Well, I didn’t break down the scoring on my Canon G3 in the e-mail I sent to Mike, I see the rest of you did so I will follow up. By the way, is it a point and shoot? It is the way I use it. It is all preset. I point it and shoot it.
1. Shirt Pocket. Well it fits into a couple of my shirts but it really fits well in the arm rest of my F-100 = 5
2. Mega Pixels. It claims 4, I guess that is better than 6 so I gave it an 8.
3. RAW, yes = 10
4. Water, Freeze no but shockproof, wow. I dropped it twice now to the floor and fell down on top of it on a lava field. dented the lens surround. I thought I broke a rib. Didn’t slow it down a bit,=5
5. Zoom, it has one, a bit big so just a 7.
6. Noise at ASA 400. I make 5x7s and 8x10s. I don’t see no noise, but only an 8 cause I’m not sure of this.
7. Articulated LCD, Yep and it is big enough for me = 10.
8. Optical viewfinder, yes but it sucks,=5
9. Anti shake, nope= 0
10 Fast,yes if I pre-focus, quiet ? well I’m a bit hard of hearing = 8. E.

9:51 PM  
Blogger Matthew Robertson said...

Olympus 770SW:

#1: 8 - shirt pocket but a little heavy.


#2: 8 - 7.1MP, and focuses well.

#3: 0 - No RAW ability, and limited JPEG controls.

#4: 10 - THE waterproof, shockproof, freezeproof camera. What happens when you sit on your packet-sized 770SW? NOTHING! It's rated to withstand 100KG of crushing force. Two of my co-workers bought it sight unseen simply for its durability. Can I give it more than ten points for this one? Please?

#5: 6 - it's not a silly range, but it's too long at the wide end. That said, my favourite lens is a 14mm-e.

#6: 6 - Noise, noise, noise... who cares about noise when you're thirty feet under water?

#7: 4 - no articulated LCD, but pretty good viewing angles.

#8: 0 - No viewfinder. But you can't use one when you're camera-tossing anyway.

#9: 0 - No anti-shake. It would be nice.

#10: 5 - It's decent for a P&S, which isn't great by SLR standards, but it usually does what I want it to.

Total points... 47. That's funny, because I love this camera.

9:59 PM  
Blogger John said...

Pentax Optio S5i

1. It even fits in a pants pocket. Check. +10
2. 5 megapixels. Check. +10
3. No RAW. 0
4. Waterproof usage possible only through a sold-separately housing. Mine's taken a few knocks, but I don't think it qualifies as shockproof. Minimum operating temperature is listed as 32. So 0 points here as well.
5. 3x zoom (36-107mm equiv), f/2.6 on the short end (f/4.8 at the tele end). +6
6. The noise at 400 is usable for a subcompact. Sure, I'd like a bigger sensor with less noise, but I can use the 400 setting, so it gets a check. +10
7. No articulated LCD. 0
8. Has an optical viewfinder. Coverage is a little less than I'd like, but then again they always are. +10
9. No anti-shake. Sadly.
10. The shutter is great. The worst performance is at full telephoto when autofocusing, and it's still better than most compacts I've used in that circumstance. It's *blazing fast* if you can prefocus, but excellent even when you have to use auto. +10

So, it scores a 56. It's a good camera: the only things that I personally wish it had is anti-shake and RAW (not a fan of articulated LCDs, and I actually like having a little more reach on the telephoto end within the 3x zoom).

10:45 PM  
Blogger kshapero said...

Pentax 750z - 62 points

11:31 PM  
Blogger Patrick Mallette said...

Pentax A10
1. 10 points for shirt-pocket size. You could *lose* the thing in your shirt pocket! No, actually the size is perfect; you forget it's there.
2. 8 points for 8 megapixels. Given the system I'd have scored 10 for 6 mpx.
3. 0 points. No RAW.
4. 2 points for surviving in the rain on several occasions. I haven't dropped it, nor had the opportunity to freeze it, but I'm giving 0 points here due to my suspicions.
5. 10 points. 3x zoom with f/2.8 on short end.
6. 5 points. Not great at ISO 400, but not horrible for a P/S. I gave a nod in that the ISO starts at 50.
7. 0 points. Nice large screen, but it doesn't articulate
8. 0 points. No optical "peephole" nor viewfinder for that matter.
9. 10 points for SR (Shake Reduction).
10. 2 points. Fast? Not hardly. Responsive? No way. Very quiet? Yes it is (2 points here). Shutter lag? You betcha ... plenty of shutter lag! Release feel? I've learned to watch the lcd go black to know that I've succeeded in taking a shot ... there is little to no "feel".

Perhaps it's been stated above, but Mike, you need to add points for manual mode. This camera doesn't it. It can be tricked, but that's a far cry from a dedicated manual mode.

11:39 PM  
Blogger Paul said...

1) Size - fits every shirt pocket I've got. 10/10
2) 6Mp - 10/10
3) No Raw. 0/10
4) No waterproofing, but I have found it to be quite robust. 3/10
5) Zoom range - 28 to 100. Another perfect score. 10/10
6) Nose is diabolical over 100 iso. 2/10
7) no articulated LCD. 0/10
8) no optical viewfinder. 0/10
9) antishake 10/10
10) fastish 4/10

So my Panasonic Fx-01 scores 49/100

11:44 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

Canon S70:
1: 10
2: 10
3: 10
4: 3
5: 10
6: 0
7: 0
8: 10
9: 0
10: 8
Total: 61

Canon A710IS
1. 5
2. 10
3. 0
4. 5
5. 10
6. 7
7. 0
8. 10
9. 10
10. 6
Total: 63

17

12:40 AM  
Blogger John Banister said...

Pentax Optio 43WR

1. 7 - 30% too big for a shirt pocket
2. 7 - 4 Mp but has the problems of too-tiny sensors
3. 0 - Jpeg only
4. 9 - It did have trouble when I had it in my pocket in an engine room in HI where the ambient temp was 130 F. I've deliberately tested waterproof and accidentally tested shockproof many times and have never had trouble in winter weather, either.
5. 8 37-104 f/2.8-f/3.9 I'd prefer wider.
6. 2.5
7. 0
8. 5 It's there, and I'm used to it, but it's tiny.
9. 0
10.7 4.5/5 on quiet. 2.5/5 on responsive (before holding the shutter release half way down)

Total ~45

Bonus: Uses AA batteries.
Uses SD card as do my laptop & cell phone.
Minus: No built-in lens cover.

1:11 AM  
Blogger huzur & urmuz said...

Panasonic LC1 / Leica Digilux2

size: it's a bridge camera, rather than a P&S, and although I don't care about size very much, I will give it 3/10

sensor: 5 megapixels - less than 6, but pretty close; 8/10

raw capability: yeas! 10/10

all kind of -proofs: not quite, but very solid build. 5/10.

zoom: 28-90 F2-2.4. Can I score it 15/10? 10/10.

ISO: well, ISO 400 is quite noisy, and worse, it doesn't have an ISO 50. 6/10.

Articulated LCD - no; 0/10 (here we should score also the quality of an LCD. It's useless to have an articulated LCD if you can't use it properly).

Optical Viewfinder - no 0/10 (although the EVF is quite good).

Image Stabilisation: I think it's the only lumix ccamera not to have such a think (probably it would had slower optics) 0/10

Speed and responsiveness: well, that's pretty good, excepting those situation when you shoot RAW. 8/10.

TOTAL: 51 points.
Hey, Panasonic, why didn't you continue this model? I want a 8 mpx. 16/9 sensor format, image stabilized LC2!

1:36 AM  
Blogger jobo said...

Ricoh GX100, then:
Size: 7, 1" thick and 4" long
2: 0, 10 mpix, but good quality ones.
3: 10+, it has two raw formats. Go figure.
4: 0, well built but no special protection.
5: 8, 24/2.4-72/4.4 equiv
6: 8, IMO
7: 5, articulated EVF
8: 5, EVF, hotshoe for external finders and corresponding zoom steps.
9: 10
10: 8, the IS adds a bit of noise. Snap shot/infinity focus mode and a focus lock toggle makes it very responsive.

That makes it 54, strictly graded.

1:49 AM  
Blogger Peter said...

Just to clarify the Yashica T types.

The one you pictured is a T4 Super which has a fixed 35mm (I think) lens while the T4 Zoom has 28-70mm zoom. I have the zoom version which suits me better but both would score the same if you give 10 to a fixed focal length lens. Either way, the results speak for themselves I think.

I see the value of T4s going up on ebay.

3:54 AM  
Blogger Robin P said...

Fuji Finepix E550:
1. Size - 9 (maybe just a tad too heavy for the shirt pocket but wouldn't feel right if it was any lighter)
2. MP - 8 (6 MPixels with 1/1.7" sensor, a bigger sensor would be better but then it would be a bigger more expensive camera)
3. Raw - 8 (Yes! - and one of the only cameras I've used where Adobe's raw conversion gives good colour, not top marks because raw slows it down)
4. Robustness - 8 (feels very solid for its type)
5. Zoom range - 10 (equivalent to a 32.5-130mm lens Just right for my needs although the long end is not so good)
6. Noise at 400 - 8 (never bothers me - noise or grain seems natural when you take a photo in subdued light)
7. Articulated LCD - 0 (the smallish LCD is not very good in bright light)
8. OVF - 6.(very small viewfinder that only gives about 80% of the full frame)
9 Stabilizer - 0
10. Fast - 7 (very fast for its time but would be too slow for many users when set to raw)
Total: 64 points

5:23 AM  
Blogger david vatovec said...

Canon Ixus 70:
1 - 10
2 - 10
3 - 0
4 - 3 (gotta test it if it is shock proof, but it is all metal)
5 - 10
6 - 10
7 - 0
8 - 10
9 - 0
10 - 10

Overall: 63
Actually i am very satisfied for what it is.

5:42 AM  
Blogger David Bennett said...

I give my Canon A410, 3.2MP, 3.2x a whopping ten points for being built like a small brick, with a flat bottom - perfect for propping on tables, bollards, up-ended cups, walls, and anything flat and horizontal to make a rigid tripod. For static subjects, 80ISO and slow speeds are not an issue.

6:36 AM  
Blogger tom said...

panny lumix LX2
1. not pocketable - 0
2. although 10 megapixels, really ~8 in 4:3, so - 8
3. raw yes BUT! files size is ENORMOUS (w/jpeg can be 23 megs and panny won't let you turn off jpeg; go figure) and thus write times are LOOOONG so i either ding it here, or under #10 for handling. ok, there - 10
4. - 0
5. only 28mm in 16:9, so - 8
6. panny famously won't let you turn off noise processing of jpegs, so processing artifacts exist, but there is a HUGE raw file ;) - 8
7. - 0
8. can i give a minus 10? - 0
9. 10
10. raw issue, see above - 4

so if my math is right, the best hands down P&S out there (for me) right now gets a .... 48!

7:46 AM  
Blogger Eddy said...

Canon PowerShot SD700 IXUS 800
Feature 1: True shirt-pocket size
10, size is really convenient

Feature 2: No more than 8 megapixels—6 would be better
10

Feature 3: RAW capability
0

Feature 4: Waterproof, shockproof, and freeze-proof
0

Feature 5: A zoom lens of no more than 3X, 28–85mm equivalent, ƒ/2.8 or faster on the short end.
3, very slow lens. zoom range is reasonable, but no wide angle (no 28mm)

Feature 6: Reasonably noise-free to ISO 400.
3, noise is terrible 400 and upward

Feature 7: An articulated LCD
8

Feature 8: An optical viewfinder
5

Feature 9: Anti-Shake/Image Stabilization/Whatever Yawanna Callit
10

Feature 10: Must be fast, responsive, and very quiet, with excellent shutter lag and shutter release feel.
5

Total :
54

7:59 AM  
Blogger Mike Johnston said...

Eddy,
So is the "Canon PowerShot SD700 IXUS 800" the same thing as the Canon SD700IS?

--Mike

9:00 AM  
Blogger Dwig said...

Nikon CP8400

1-Size: 5; not "pocketable" but fits a small fanny pack well enough.

2. Megapixels: 9; at 8mp it fits the spec though isn't your "perfect 6".

3. RAW: 10; you've got it or you don't. Only partial scores here should go to those that have some lossless non-RAW format. "JPEG-onlys" should only get zero.

4 x-proof: 3; not waterproof and, living in Key West, can't comment on freezeproof. It has an all metal body and is very shockproof when off (lens collapsed).

5 Zoom: 10; I still vote 10 even though its over the spec'd 3x limit since the extra range is on the wide end (24-85 equiv). Also, its f/2.5 at the 24mm equiv setting.

6 Noise @ ISO400: 5; Its decent and, having RAW, you've got some control in post-processing.

7 Articulated LCD: 10; excellent flexibility.

8 Optical VF: 7: Not fully optical but still eyelevel. The EVF is substantially brighter in low light than any, even Leica, optical VFs though it does have some lag.

9 AS/IS/...: 0

10 Responsive: 6; its slow for the lame PHD (Push Here Dummy) users that can't be bothered to use focus trapping. When you trap focus, the remaining lag is small.

Total: 65

(sorry for the repost but I failed to mention which camera is was rating in my first post)

Dwig

10:30 AM  
Blogger Randomrubble said...

Since you let a film camera in earlier, and what I really want is a digital Minox here's how I think my old 35GT scores...

1 - 10 points (tho probably only about 7 with the flash, but I never use flash on any of my cameras)

2 - 7, with that minotar lens and a good fine grain film it's too high res! it's probably close to equaling my 1Ds

3 - 10 if you count negative film as a RAW mode!

4 - 5 Robust, but not weather resistant, and the winding mechanism can fail.

5 - 10 the aforementioned Minotar

6 - 7 Change the fil, but digi can win at higher ISO

7 - 0

8 - 8 not the best finder, but you do get a little needle that shows the shutter speed

9 - 0

10 - not instant, but nothing is quieter.

10:49 AM  
Blogger ayh said...

Panasonic DMC-LX1:

Size: 7/10 (fits in jacket pocket but not shirt pocket)
MPixels: 10/10 (8Mpixels)
RAW: 10/10
Weatherproofing: 5/10 (exposed to light rain without incident)
Lens: 5/10 (very slow at long end)
Image noise: 0/10 (appalling)
Articulated LCD: 0/10
Optical viewfinder: 0/10
IS: 10/10
Responsiveness: 5/10 (decent in JPEG mode, dreadful in RAW mode)

Total: 52/100.

11:33 AM  
Blogger Michael Digital said...

It's interesting to see how pople score their compact digital cameras. I'm so happy with my G3 that when my origianl one died. I bought another on eBay. I really think that the G7 with no raw is really a down grade. I don't know what Canon was thinking! I've made 13 x 19 prints from this 4 megapixel gem that are hard to tell from mu 30D at 8 megapixels. Excellent glass, movable lcd, optical finder, introvalometer, and as many adjustments as the 30D. All in a small compact package. Mini camera heaven!!! I give it a 100+!!!

3:07 PM  
Blogger Dorin said...

1. A little thick, otherwise quite small. 8/10.
2. 4 megapixels. 7/10.
3. No RAW. 0/10.
4. Nothing, thought teh build is quite nice for cheapo digicam. 1/10.
5. f2.8/32mm equiv, perfect focal length for me, though optically the lens is not fantastic. 9/10.
6. The sensor is plain crappy - storng NR right from ISO 100. No big noise at ISO, though no details too. Works as snap-shot digicam. 2/10.
7. No articulated LCD. 0/10.
8. Got one, typical PS viewfinder. 7/10.
9. None. 0/10.
10. Very fast AF! I use it prefocused at 1.0 m all the time - it's almost instant. 10/10.

3:15 PM  
Blogger Mike Johnston said...

Dorin,
I'm hoping you're going to tell us what camera you're talking about...don't feel too bad, several other people have done the same thing.

--Mike

4:24 PM  
Blogger Steve Thurow said...

Nikon 35 Ti total 72
1. Size: 10, fits in your pocket not to small to comfortably hold.
2. MegaPixels: 10 Huge MP, scan the film.
3. Raw Capability: 10, the original Raw.
4. Waterproof: 4.
5. Zoom Range: 10 for sharpness of lens, and as far as zoom goes, I have two legs.
6. Noise at 400 ISO: 10, have you seen T-Max?
7. Articulated LCD: 0 find a ladder or lay on your belly.
8. Optical Viewfinder: 10 Yes, and paralax corrected.
9. AS/IS: 0, control your breathing grass hopper or find a table to set it on.
10. Fast: 8 don't miss pictures.

4:38 PM  
Blogger Bruce McL said...

I think some finer grained definitions on your compact camera rating system would be helpful. Here's my attempt at taking more of the emotion out of these ratings.

1. 10 points for T-shirt pocket. 5 points for any other pocket above the waist. 0 for neck strap or coat pocket.

2. 10 points for 6 megapixels. For each megapixel above, subtract two points, For each megapixel below, subtract three points.

3. RAW is 10 points. JPEG or TIFF is zero. Any points other than 10 or zero means the rating needs to be done over.

4. 3 points for waterproof, 3 points for shockproof, 3 points for freeze proof. 1 point for all metal body.

5. Subtract 5 points for zoom range starting above 30. Subtract 1 point per 5 mm above or below 85mm. Prime below 30 has no penalty here. Subtract 3 points for each half stop smaller than f 2.8.

6. The two Fuji cameras (F30, F31fd) get a 10. Most cameras get a 4 or 5. Casio, Panasonic, and Olympus get a 1 or 2. Borrowing from Simon Joinson here, referenced in another TOP post.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/compactcamerahighiso/page5.asp

7. Hinged LCD gets a 10. Everything else gets a zero. No points for big, bright, or clear LCDs.

8. Built in optical viewfinder gets 8-10. Optional optical viewfinder gets a 5-7. Everything else gets a zero. No points for big, bright, or clear LCDs.

9. Optical Image Stabilization gets a 10. The camera has to have an element, lens or sensor, that moves during the exposure. Everything else gets a zero.

10. 5 points for complete lack of sound. Fewer points for more sound. 5 points for less than 0.2 seconds shutter release. 3 points for 0.2x range, 1 point for 0.3x range. Zero points for 0.4 seconds or more. See chart referenced in an earlier TOP post.

http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutter-lag-comparisons.cfm?sort=ShutterLag

4:47 PM  
Blogger Mike Johnston said...

Arrgh! A schism in the orthodoxy already! (s)

--Mike

4:52 PM  
Blogger Dr Hiding Pup said...

Olympus C-5050: 78 but I'm biased

6:30 PM  
Blogger bob said...

First, I will say that I think your scoring system is too much "something for everyone", and doesn't allow for personal preferences and requirements. For example, I want to give my camera 10 points for not having an articulated LCD. I've had two cameras with them, and while they were useful they do not fit with my conception of a point-and-shoot, which should possess the ultimate in simplicity. And you want to give another ten points for the optical viewfinder, which I won't argue with except to say that you ought to make up your mind. I also have had RAW in a point-and-shoot (in a Nikon CP-5700) and, although it was a nice idea, I absolutely never used it because the cycle time was horrendous. Does anyone make a p&s with raw that doesn't go out to lunch when you use it in raw mode? If I'm going to shoot raw I'll pull out my K-M 7D, thank you.

Additionally, you've missed some things. For example, live histogram display. With the clipping problems on these tiny cameras, it is essential, as is a straightforward way to quickly run the exposure compensation up and down with instant feedback from the histogram. Yes, I know that this is part of what RAW is for, but see above. Also, decent flash power can be useful since these things are often used in difficult lighting situations, where fill flash can make a picture possible. I'll also say that my Casio, rated below, came with the nicest case I've ever had to keep a camera in. I find I appreciate that more than I'd ever have anticipated. If I had a different camera I'd likely miss it.

I have a Casio EX-Z850, which isn't available anymore. On your scale I have go give it a 49, but I really don't think that does it justice. FWIW, here's a few pictures I took with it, that I quickly pulled out of my archive and adjusted only for brightness, contrast, color, etc. No claims on artistic merit -- they're snapshots, which is, for me, the whole point of this camera.

Feature 1: 10 points. There are smaller cameras but I don't think that they are usefully smaller. This camera goes anywhere, in my experience.

Feature 2: 8 points. It's 8 megapixels. As you said, 6 would be better.

Feature 3: 0 points. No raw. I don't miss it.

Feature 4: 5 points. I've never used it in a thunderstorm or in a deep freeze, but I've kicked it around a good bit and it remains in perfect condition. Metal case.

Feature 5: 7 points. 3X zoom, f/2.8. Shifted a bit long from your ideal.

Feature 6: 3 points. It starts to get noisy at 200.

Feature 7: Nice, large, smooth, flat LCD on the back. Nothing to snag on anything or to break, it's always ready to slip into the case. Zero points on your scale, ten on mine.

Feature 8: 8 points. It has one. It's little. It does zoom with the lens. I never use it.

Feature 9: Zero. No anti-shake. I do miss that, having, as I mentioned, a K-M 7D. But when I was shopping for this camera, on my scoring spreadsheet, IS couldn't outweigh all the other disadvantages of the cameras available at the time. Pity.

Feature 10: 8 points. I have no complaints. It's not a DSLR.

10:02 PM  
Blogger Seungmin said...

Alright lets do this...

Sony DSC-W30
1) Can fit into a shirt pocket, no problem, but I wouldn't be super comfortable carrying it there, Although truthfully, it doesn't get a whole lot smaller than this. Score: 8.
2) Intentionally made sure to get a 6MP sensor for the same reason, score: 10.
3) No RAW capability at all, score: 0
4) No super powers at all, score: 0
5) 3x zoom, check. f/2.8 on the short end, check. 28-85 nope, but c'mon almost nobody has 28mm equiv. on the short end. Score: 8
6) Iso400? check and check. (Admittedly these are near ideal test cases, but check out the text in the first shot.) Even Iso800 isn't too bad either. Mostly it depends on your tolerance for noise. Iso1000 is hit or miss affair, mostly due to a saturation issue. Score: 9. Only because the Fuji is still probably technically better, although I find Iso400 perfectly usable on the Sony.
7) Fixed LCD. Score: 0
8) Optical viewfinder, check. Score: 10.
9) No stabilization of any kind. Score: 0.
10) "Performance" is a very subjective thing... Power on time is decent, but not class-leading. Shutter-lag is nearly non-existent, if it's pre-focused. AF speed is decent, but it won't win any prizes. Score: 7.

Total: 53

A couple of things that swayed me to this particular camera not totally covered by the above: It has post-exposure and live-view histograms. It has very good, for a P&S, controls with all the necessary shooting controls available (flash-mode, E/C). A/S modes aren't as useful as you might think if you've only got two actual apertures at every focal length and a double handful of shutter speeds. Judicious use of "sport" and "landscape" scene modes are almost as good. However, being able to access E/C and flash-modes without going into menus is critical. Manual focus is available--when looking for speed I'll set manual focus at about 3m for a larger room or 0.5/1m across a table and let DOF cover for any hit-or-miss focusing and lose the AF induced lag entirely. While lacking a RAW mode, you can control sharpening and contrast (+/- 1). I shoot everything with sharpening and contrast -1.



---Peter (who'll have to rate the A1 on this scale again later)

10:22 PM  
Blogger joshua said...

I'm still using my 3 yr old fuji E550 with great results so here it goes...

1. Not shirt pocket but still small. 5/10

2. 6mp 10/10

3. raw 10/10

4. not exactly waterproof but ive used it in the rain with no problems 4/10

5. 4x zoom starting at 32mm f2.8 at wide and always sharp 7/10

6. its the older sensor than the f30 but still pwnz most digicams 7/10

7. lcd doesnt move but its high quality 2/10

8. it has this but i never use it and its poor quality 5/10

9. no IS 0/10

10. fairly fast for digicam, doesnt compare to dslr 4/10

Total 54 and im very happy with my choice. So many ppl say that a digicam is obsolete after 2 or 3 yrs but mine is still competitive, mostly due to the raw mode. Cheers,

2:31 AM  
Blogger Andrew Fildes said...

Ricoh GR-D
1. Size - 10
2. 8 MP - 9
3. RAW - 8 slow but it is Adobe DNG
4. Tough - first one dead out of the box, replacement in trouble at 15 months (lens assembly failure) - 0
5. Zoom. er... no, prime. f2.4 - 10
6. Not bad - 8
7. No - 0
8. Yes, optional, good but expensive - 8
9. No - 0
10. Silent, quick enough - 8
TOTAL - 61
I like it and love the hot shoe, 21mm equiv. converter, finder, lens shade, USB cable release.


Ricoh GX-100
1. Size - 10
2. 10 MP - 5
3. RAW - 8 slow but it is Adobe DNG
4. Tough - not 'proof' but feels robust - 2
5. Zoom. 3x . f2.5 (nice) to 4.4 (ugh!) But 24mm equiv. WIDE - 9
6. Poor - serious shadow chroma at 200 ISO! - 4
7. No - 0
8. Yes, optional,unique electronic plug-in, flip-up brilliant - 10
9. No - 0
10. Silent, quick enough - 8
TOTAL - 56
Note, hot shoe.
I wanted to like it and love the 19mm equiv. converter, EVF, lens shade, USB cable release - but the NOISE! Still, fun.

Leica D-Lux 3 (aka. Panny LX-2)
1. Size - 10
2. 10 MP - 5
3. RAW - 8 acceptable
4. Proof - no, hard body - 5
5. Zoom. 4x f2.8 - 8
6. Panasonic - 400, don't bother - 4
7. No - 0
8. No - 0
9. Yes, effective - 10
10. Quiet, quick enough - 8
TOTAL - 58
Very small, metal, unobtrusive, expensive, better than Panasonic version but still too noisy.

What about hot shoe as a feature? Image stabilisation overated - doesn't help if the subject is moving but lulls people into 'it'll do it anyway' thinking.

5:45 AM  
Blogger PleasureSean said...

Canon SD500
1. 10
2. 10 (5mp is plenty for snapshots)
3. 0 (nope - it would be nice)
4. 5 - not advertised as such, but it sits in the pocket of my pants and takes a lot of abuse from running around at parties and events and keeps on ticking = tuff enough
5. 7 - 35 mm start is not wide enough for me - I don't care about the tele end for this camera
6. 0 - 200 iso is marginal, 400 is unusable
7. 0 - I actually disagree that this counts equally as the other factors - I don't want an articulated LCD as the additional bulk and weight is not worth it and I never use one with my shooting style.
8. 10 - but really not that big of a deal for me due to my shooting style
9. 0
10. 10 - absolutely fast.

Total: 52

I like this camera more than 52 out of 100. Size/weight, responsiveness, and picture quality are the most important things to me in a P&S and this camera shines in all of those aspects.

12:23 PM  
Blogger Seungmin said...

As promised here comes the Dimage A1. It's not a P&S by any means, but if people can rate G3s, LC1s and S5000s then the A1 get's its say too:

1) No where near shirt pocket size. I usually carry it in a bag. Score: 0
2) 5MP. The difference between 5MP and 6MP on my two cameras works out to 256 px horizonatally and 132 px vertically. Score: 10.
3) IMO, it had bar none the best RAW handling non-SLR in its time. Think about how a dSLR handles RAW. I cannot emphasize enough how far ahead of its time the RAW handling capability was. Even now given how many manufaturers have been removing the feature altogether, I think the RAW capability of these two cameras A1/A2 has been at best equalled, never bettered. Score: an enthusiastic 10 points.
4) This camera is quite sturdy and I've used it all over with no hiccups, but again this camera has no special superpowers. Score: 0.
5) This model uses the same mechanically linked 7x 7-50mm f/2.8-3.5 (28-200 equiv) GT zoom as the original Dimage 5 series models. My only ding perhaps is that there's a noticeable amount of barrel distortion at the wide end, but that goes away quickly. I know this exceeds the 3x zoom range, but having shot with this lens as much as I have I can't feel comfortable giving it anything less than a 10.
6) The Iso400 of this camera is perfectly acceptable with proper exposure. Out of camera I think it's close to the W30 samples above, but not quite as nice straight out of the camera. This camera has a 5MP 2/3" type sensor, compared to the current crop of 1/2.5" cameras this is practically huge. Nevertheless it is a very old sensor and the technology has progressed quite a lot. That being said, a good RAW file and Noise Ninja can make up for a multitude of sins. Score: 7
7) The LCD articulates up for waist-level shots. But doesn't rotate side to side. Score: 9.
8) No optical VF. Score: 0.
9) AS-the first incarnation of Minolta-style sensor-based stabilization. It really works. Score: 10.
10) As far as speed goes... Start-up time was "competitive" at the time of release. It's probably quite slow now. At the time it was released it was in the top tier for AF speed. Even now it probably runs somewhere in the middle of the pack. No appreciable shutter-lag when AF is achieved. Digicams really don't make noise as long as you turn all the stupid beeps off. The only real niggling performance issue, buffer clear, was alleviated by a firmware update that Minolta released, shortly before they went under, that nearly doubled its write speed. The really important thing about the performance of the camera however, is not a tale told in just the performance numbers. The key point about the camera is that I'm never left feeling like I'm waiting for the camera. I've shot practically every one of my roughly 10,000 frames with this camera in RAW and I've almost never felt like I was waiting for the camera to catch up to me. How many non-dSLRs can you say that about? Score: 8.

Total: 64

Just like the W30 there are some purely personal plusses: dual control wheels front and back, the Minolta-style "function wheel"+"button lock" control, the clever low-light black-and-white high-gain EVF mode, wireless flash commander capability, EVF-LCD auto-switching... you get the idea. The last personal plus, was the manufacturer: How many companies do you know of that will release a firmware "upgrade", not bug-fix, for a camera that's almost 2 years old???

The only downside to this camera was a crappy JPEG conversion engine. As stated above I got around this by exclusively shooting RAW.

12:25 PM  
Blogger ctyankee said...

Canon A610 = 45 ... sorry, I already deleted the individual scores. It's an interesting scale that I more or less agree with except that, like anything else, it doesn't tell me which camera is better for me :)

8:09 AM  
Blogger digiTED said...

Panasonic Lumix FX8

1.size: 10 (deck of cards)
2.MP<8: 10 (5mp is perfect for my
use of this thing)
3.RAW?: 0 no...:(
4.robust? 5 (it's all metal and has
been beaten up in my
everyday bag for 1.5
years with no probs).
5.zoom: 10 3x; 35mm-105mm, f2.8
Leica
6.400 IQ: 7 (as with all noise
comparisons, proper
exposure makes all the
difference. ISO 400
quality is not bad for
a sensor the size of a
flea).
7. LCD: 3 though not articulated,
it's huge and has an
equally huge viewing
angle. it's even pretty
decent in the sun.
8. Op VF? 3 nope. i don't miss it
on such a tiny camera,
though.
9. Stablized? 10. It works
surprisingly well,
though it's not like
the VR on a 300 f2.8
Nikkor...
10. Fast, quiet? 8. Reasonably so.

Though this is no replacement for my Rollei 35S (black) with TMAX 3200 pushed 1 stop for nighttime candids, it does a nice overall job for a $250 micro digital that easily disappears in any bag or pocket.

66 points

2:57 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home